John Demato
visual storytelling expert
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we are wired as human beings to make meaning through visuals
John Demato
Episode 146
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Brief summary of show:
In today’s episode of Counsel Cast, “What Photo Strategies Will Elevate Your Law Firm’s Brand? with John Demato,” we explore the vital role of visual storytelling in law firm marketing with expert photographer and brand strategist, John Demato.
In this conversation, John DeMato and Karin Conroy delve into the significance of visual storytelling in branding, particularly for law firms. They discuss how aligning visuals with brand messaging can enhance credibility and trust. The conversation emphasizes the importance of consistency across various platforms, the need for authentic imagery, and the role of strategy in photography. They also touch on the pitfalls of using stock photography, advocating for genuine, relatable images that resonate with clients. The discussion also touches on actionable insights for improving visual representation and the necessity of regular updates to maintain relevance in a competitive market.
Don’t just listen—take action!
Apply these strategies to see real results
Show Notes
In today’s episode of Counsel Cast, “What Photo Strategies Will Elevate Your Law Firm’s Brand? with John Demato,” we explore the vital role of visual storytelling in law firm marketing with expert photographer and brand strategist, John Demato.
🔍 Episode Highlights:
- Discover how the right photo strategies can enhance your law firm’s brand credibility and build trust.
- John Demato shares insights on using visual storytelling to connect with potential clients and build long-term influence.
- Learn why visual variety is key to keeping your audience engaged and how to avoid common mistakes in law firm photography.
- Find out which types of images can set your firm apart from competitors in a crowded legal market.
🎙️ In This Episode:
- Dive into effective photo strategies that can transform your law firm’s brand and client engagement.
- John Demato offers expert advice on using photos to communicate persuasively and establish trust.
- Get actionable tips for integrating visual variety into your marketing efforts to increase credibility.
- Understand how to use authentic imagery to influence client perceptions and differentiate your law firm.
John Demato gives listeners actionable tips on:
00:00 Introduction to Visual Storytelling
03:00 Aligning Visuals with Brand Messaging
05:48 The Importance of Consistency Across Platforms
09:01 Crafting Authentic Visual Narratives
11:59 The Role of Strategy in Photography
15:04 Embracing Creativity in Photography
17:51 The Pitfalls of Stock Photography
23:02 The Importance of Authentic Visual Storytelling
26:00 Crafting a Strategic Visual Narrative
30:09 Profile Photography: Balancing Personality and Professionalism
33:01 The Role of Strategy in Visual Branding
37:01 Actionable Insights for Visual Representation
39:55 The Impact of Visuals on Client Perception
Take Action: Your Next Steps
This episode provides practical takeaways that you can implement immediately to enhance your approach to communication and public speaking. Dive into the full episode for more details. Here’s a quick look at the first step:
Perception & Personality
- What are the five words about how you want to be perceived by those you serve? And what at what five aspects of your personality do you want to convey to them? And then once you have those words, look at the images.

John Demato's Book
This week, we’re excited to feature “Exactly What to Say” by Phil Jones as part of our Thought Leaders Library series. Recommended by our guest, John DeMato, this book dives into the power of language and how to use the right words to influence, persuade, and create meaningful connections.
In “Exactly What to Say,” Phil Jones breaks down simple yet powerful phrases that can transform the way you communicate in both personal and professional settings. It’s a must-read for anyone in the legal industry looking to enhance their communication skills, build trust, and engage more effectively with clients.
📝 Why This Book Matters for Lawyers:
- Learn how to communicate more persuasively in client meetings, negotiations, and marketing.
- Discover specific phrases that can help build trust, establish authority, and guide conversations in a positive direction.
- Apply these tactics to enhance client intake processes, pitch presentations, and everyday interactions.
From the publisher:
Often the decision between a customer choosing you over someone like you is your ability to know exactly what to say, when to say it, and how to make it count. Phil M. Jones has trained more than two million people across five continents and over fifty countries in the lost art of spoken communication. In Exactly What to Say, he delivers the tactics you need to get more of what you want.
Exactly What to Say by Phil Jones
Show Transcript
Here, you’ll find a detailed, word-for-word account of the insightful conversation from this episode. Whether you’re revisiting key takeaways or catching up on what you missed, this transcript is a valuable resource for diving deeper into the expert advice shared by our guest. Enjoy exploring strategies, tips, and actionable insights tailored to help lawyers and law firms grow their practice through effective marketing!
Images can convey messages in a unique way that words simply cannot, making them essential elements in building a strong marketing campaign. Branding and book photographer John DeMato joins Karin Conroy to discuss the best photo strategies to elevate your law firm’s brand. They explain how to make the most out of photoshoots, how to produce the right profile photos, and when to update images across your online profiles. John also stresses why using stock photos is a big mistake and how to give photographers the freedom to leverage even the most spontaneous moments of your business.
What Photo Strategies Will Elevate Your Law Firm’s Brand? With John DeMato
I’m John DeMato. I’m a branding, event, and book photographer who serves experts who speak, coach, train, consult, and write books. The main job that I do with them is to help align their words with their visuals to help position them as the authority in their space of expertise in the eyes of those they serve.
John, I love that intro. I feel like there is so much there that we can just slice that up and make a show out of it. Thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me, and I think that’s exactly what we are going to do. You are in luck.
Visual Storytelling
We are going to talk about visual storytelling, and I like that this is sort of the mantra that I kept seeing when I was being introduced to you and looking through your stuff. I feel like those two words are telling, and so the title for the show is “What Photo Strategies Will Elevate Your Law Firm’s Brand.” I didn’t use visual storytelling in the title because I feel like we need to explain that. We are talking a lot about photos, images, visuals, and all that stuff, and because you are a photographer, that’s what it all comes back to but let’s first start with that. What is this idea of visual storytelling?
Visual storytelling is the practice of proving what you say is true based on how you show up in your photos.
Visual storytelling is the practice of proving what you say is true based on how you show up in your photos. Share on X
This audience is all lawyers, and that’s the goal here to build trust and show that what you are saying is true. Let’s start with an example of how that is done wrong, like how an image is not aligned with the things that they are saying.
I would start with the personality aspect of these images, as opposed to the activities that are happening within these images. For example, if a firm is trying to create a perception of authority, confidence, trust, and credibility, and yet everything you are posting is silly, like smartphone photos of you guys hanging out at the bar afterward. While those photos have a place in certain respects, sometimes not even all the time the point is, if you are looking to attract an audience into your world to learn more about how your firm can help solve their particular problems, you first have to get them connected and interested to do that. One of the ways to do that is by sharing images that show the core values, the personality, and the brand of the firm. You convey that through the images in which you share them.
Online Presence
I feel like it’s interesting where you started in this description, where it went to social media because, in my experience, we will put together a great website or a marketing campaign or whatever. We have got the messaging, and it’s all pretty buttoned up but then, as soon as the firm decides to go out to social media, it’s like their brain melts out of their ear, and they decide to take an entirely left turn with everything that we are doing because I feel like we all spend a decent amount of time on social media. We all have this idea of what that means to be on social media based on people in totally different industries doing different things but it’s like, now I need to dance. What are you doing? Why? Where did that come from, and how does this have anything to do with anything? Have you seen this happen and how do you address how to have that consistent approach across all platforms your website, social media, everything, all of the stuff that you are doing?
The first step is to not wing it, hope for the best, and piecemeal it. First of all, understand the value of having compelling visual storytelling consistent across all touchpoints of your online presence. That starts with being strategic. You’ve got to map that out. How do you want to be perceived? What is the brand itself? What are the services? Show your audience of potential clients how the sausage is made. Get them intrigued and learn more about the specific way in which you can solve their problems. When you do that, you are giving them an opportunity to visualize what it looks like to work with you folks, as opposed to just asking, “How much do you cost? When can you get started?”
Two Examples
Like nitty-gritty. I would like to start with two examples. I use these two examples over and over when we are talking about how things can be different with the brand. A client of ours who did personal injury, their approach was like imagery and thoughts of being in your corner, and like boxing gloves like their visual brand, and their logo was bold, with dark strong colors. That’s one example.
Versus another client who is in a small town in Tennessee, where they do elder law. Their approach and their client could not be more different. They want this soft, compelling, personal feel of being there, understanding, and probably also not very tech-forward. Being more like, “In your face, you can come in and meet with us,” and that stuff. As opposed to this personal injury, the strong guy came with the images he wanted to use in the beginning, like boxing gloves. Using those two, how would you tell if their images, and maybe the images they are using on their website, are strategically effective? How could you line up those two types of clients or projects and then say, “Here’s the right approach for these guys, and here’s the right approach for those guys?”
When we are talking about the boxing glove thing, can I be honest? I’m not trying to be mean or anything, but it feels contrived. It feels forced, staged, and wrong. The personal feel that’s what I took from that example you gave me from the small-town folks. That immediately resonated. Why? When you are in the business of building relationships, long-term relationships and that’s what law is. It’s a professional services industry. The goal is always to be as genuine as possible and ultimately to make the content and the stories that you share, wherever it is online, about how you serve, and how you help, and to create that emotional resonance for people.
When people are deciding whether or not you are the solution to their problem, it’s heart and head, both at the same time. I have seen some of that stuff when I travel for work. The other one I have seen is in New York City when you come off the bridge into Manhattan, there is this gigantic personal injury lawyer who has his office in my neighborhood in Queens. It looks like a NASCAR background with all of these different elements. He doesn’t have boxing gloves, but he took the photo at a party because you could see someone’s arm around him with the handcuffs. It looks horrific and it sends the wrong message because it feels forced. In his case, he’s forcing credibility. “I’m the best at this,” and it’s like I don’t even know where to look but when you are talking about the stuff that comes from a more emotional base, that’s the type of stuff that will resonate with more people.
Doing It The Right Way
Let’s take those examples of the personal injury guys. Even though these two examples, the one I gave you and the one you see by the bridge are doing it wrong. Let’s unpack that and talk about it. There is a piece that people want to know. It’s the piece where your corner, I recognize this is going to be a fight, and I have got your back. It’s not necessarily that soft estate planning approach. How do those guys do it the right way?
I’m brainstorming right now because you’re giving me some juice to work with here. What I would probably say is, if we are going for words that are around strong and dependable, reliable, confident, and proven, the way that you can convey that in portraits is in the way that you light the person and the composition. Preferably, a lot of the direct address portraits where the lawyers are looking at the camera would be a little bit lower to add some presence and to show some strength in there.
What I would also say is, that it’s important not just to use the lighting and the composition, but then it becomes a matter of illustrating what dependable, confident, reliable looks like to them through their facial expression and their body language. When you put those things all together in the melting pot, all of a sudden, now you have something that’s going to resonate with people in the way in which they intended, but not in the cheesy way that they executed it originally.
The only thing I want to underline there because I feel like it’s so true is that the first thing you said is that when we are talking about these words, and then you mentioned dependable and confident. That’s the first step to figuring out those words. That’s where we start. I don’t know if you guys sit down or if you take the strategy in from a strategist, but first, you have to have those words. You don’t go to your photographer or your branding person or whatever and say, “Take the photos.” You need to give them that direction and that strategy, and that stuff that’s already been thought out, outlined, and said, “Our firm strategy is XYZ.”
What I would even add to that is it’s incumbent upon the photographer to come in and lead the dance when it comes to the strategic conversation before any shoot. It could be me photographing a branding session, I could be shooting an event, a keynote, a three-day or whatever thing, or I could be photographing a book. It does not matter. Always have a strategy call beforehand.
It is incumbent upon the photographer to come in and lead the dance when it comes to strategic conversations before any shoot. Share on X
The branding session. The first three questions are, “Why do you need these photos?” The second one is, “What five words illustrate the perception you want to convey to your audience?” The third question is, “What five aspects of your personality do you want to present through your photos?” I’m 100% with you because that’s the North Star right there.
Those were three quick points that you made, but that’s what you need to come to your photographer with is the, “What is your personality that you are looking to convey? What are the five words of your strategy?’ What was the first one?
“Why did you book this session?” Here’s why that one is important. It’s not because I’m assuming that whatever they say is only what we are shooting for. What I’m listening for is where the gaps are because there’s yes, everything you said, and the 27 other things you never thought about, because this is not what you are an expert in and that’s why experts hire experts.
Oftentimes when we are setting up a photo shoot, I will be having these conversations. A lot of times the firms will say, “Tell us exactly what you need. What photos?” I always say, so with all of these things in mind, we want to give direction. We want to be clear, we want to have a strategy, but we also want to leave a lot of room for creativity and freedom for the photographer.
I always say you have to leave some space. Give them these directions, but then if you are in the moment and you’ve hired this photographer and you’ve brought them into your office, and all of a sudden, they are looking around thinking, “There’s a great thing over here,” let them take those photos. Don’t miss out on things because you are being almost too overbearing in a checklist of what you want.
Granted, I am that person who will have the buttoned-up, itemized shots of every scenario and then tell them what outfits they need, what props they need to bring, and what other objects they need to bring but 10 times out of 10 times I will freestyle when I’m in the moment. If I see something good, it is important for that because you never know. It might not even be some monumental shift. It might be a yes-and to what’s already on the list but instead of having three types of portraits that you are going to get where you are looking into the camera, I see that space over there. Go over there, and take the jacket off so it looks different. Don’t bring any props. Go stand over there, and then we are going to go to work and leverage that space. That stuff is important.
Let me give you an example of that. You will appreciate how this played out once. We were doing this photo shoot for a firm on Park Avenue, and we wanted to do some outside shots because they do a lot of international law and whatever, and we didn’t want to feel so stuffy. The photographer went outside to get some great lighting, whatever, and they’re outside, and all of a sudden they realized that their location in the middle of New York, on Park Avenue, was a part of their whole story and how it’s super important where they are located. He shifted so that Park Avenue was in the background, so it’s a nice blur, and there’s some nice motion. There’s, like, a difference.
You can tell you can see taxis and all of that in the background and the buildings but it’s blurred. The focus is the portrait, but it’s different and people that have an office in Oklahoma could not have these photos. You can only be on Park Avenue to have these photos. It’s an important little nod to, “This is where we are. We know this is important to some of our clients, and we are going to throw it in the background and have a little note.” If that photographer wasn’t given that freedom to shift from the angle of where they were shooting over to this angle, what was so cool? All of a sudden their photos look more fresh and interesting and modern, but they are still a law firm. These guys are still in jackets and all of that, and it was such a nice touch. That was a firm where I told them, “Give him some freedom because he’s good and let him do what he’s going to do, and this will turn out great.” Here’s what we need, but then there’s a big asterisk at the end “Give him freedom to do this well.”
All of that is to say that it’s important to understand who the photographer is that you are bringing in. That you not only know that they can work with someone like you, but they have worked with people like you. They have done it well, and they have done it over time because you know, if you get stuck with a wedding photographer shooting a law firm, you could run into some problems. That’s that’s the thing.
We have that so many times, and it’s like, “My nephew is a wedding photographer,” and I’m like because he has a camera and he’s taken some pretty pictures of a bride once or twice, that doesn’t mean he can do this.
You are my new best friend. I appreciate you saying that. I love that and it’s true.
I get the same thing where it’s like we are coming to you. We are frustrated because our website’s not doing anything and I’m like, well, tell me about it. Where did, how did that happen? My cousin’s uncle’s nephew who lives in the basement threw it together for a couple hundred bucks and it’s like, “You look like you are worth a couple hundred bucks.” That is a critical thing to realize, which is, that if you want to position yourself as a premium solution, you have to present yourself in a premium way. It’s not the words, it’s not the video. It’s also the visuals that complement everything that you are putting out there.
If you want to position yourself as a premium solution, you have to present yourself in a premium way. Share on X
Stock Photos
It’s so true but where people get it wrong to give people a little bit of cushion or whatever, is that it’s hard. The easy answer is usually cheaper and easier, and so people go with that because they have seen other people do that. This is my transition into talking about stock photos, which is one of your favorite topics because you are ready to jump in. Let’s talk about it. First of all, why do you have such a strong reaction to stock photos? They’re photos. They were done, in a lot of cases, by professional photographers. Why are they so gross?
It’s not that the photos themselves are aesthetically nasty, for lack of a better phrase. Although I will say some of the acting in them is horrific, and it depresses me that a photographer had to live through that experience to photograph them but that’s a whole other conversation entirely. When it comes to the actual audience that is purchasing these stock photos, the main problem that I have with it is it’s disingenuous. It has absolutely nothing to do with the people that are in that boardroom, in that space, or a part of that company, whether it’s law or otherwise. Stock in general and again.
If we are talking about building relationships, trust, and credibility, how the hell can you build credibility when you are posting a photo of, like, ten people shaking hands? It’s the most uncomfortable-looking thing I have ever seen in my life. The doctor ones are even worse. Guys standing there with the stethoscope. It’s like, “In what world does that look realistic ever?” The answer is it doesn’t.
It looks super fake, and then it calls into question your authenticity, and you lose trust. There are so many articles that I love reading about how stock photos diminish your trust when the whole point of this exercise is to build trust. I wanted to mention this because we talked about this briefly before we started the show. I had this blog post, and I need to revisit it because it was so many years ago. I don’t think it’s even out there anymore, but it was five stock photos to never, ever use and so, I’m going to list what I remember the five being, and then I want to hear, like, what your five most hated stock photos are.
It was columns, and this is obviously for the legal industry, for lawyers. Columns, scales of justice, a woman with a headset like on your contact page. Do not have a woman with a headset some generic column, scales of justice, a woman with a headset, shaking hands, the generic shaking hands like you were talking about and I’m trying to remember what the fifth one was, but you can all picture these on these horrible websites and instantly, you start to question the value of that firm. What are some of your most hated stock photos?
You’ve got the business card transaction. How dare you forget that one? Here’s another awesome one. “Everybody, let all six of us gather around one laptop and pretend like we are watching and reading something and doing something important.” We are going to do a drafting session. Come on over. This is what happens every Tuesday. This is what it looks like to be in this office.
The counter to that was I shot a law firm.
You did the six people around one laptop shoot.
The way in the strategy call we set it up is I said to them, “How do you guys work together?” Part of it was we worked mostly remotely. What did that mean? I had them send me the Zoom link. I took the laptop and went into another room. All of them were on a phone or a laptop, and I was shooting the screen as everybody was talking. That’s one.
What is it like to work with you? Is this meant to convey their internal stuff or also how they work with their clients?
The answer is both. These photos, it was mostly internal for their website. They are very light on the social. It’s what their jam is, and that’s fine, but what we ended up doing is recreating. I say recreating versus capturing real-life moments, the truth is, while it was a contrived scenario in terms of being in a studio shoot, or a branding shoot, what I told them was, “Work on the real stuff.” I saw, well, the drafting document looks like. I said, “My head exploded, by the way.” I’m like, “Can you guys put some, can you put some page breaks or something in this thing? I don’t know how the hell you read that. It’s crazy.”
That was another one I was going to mention in terms of stock photos that I hate, is the pretend document signing. The number of times I have looked at those stock photos, and you can tell it’s a blank piece of paper. It’s like, “Come on, people. At least put some fake words on that paper.” I interrupted you, though, and you were telling me more because I do want to hear more about how this shoot played out.
You did the cool Zoom shoot of them on a laptop doing their Zoom thing, that’s a genius way of conveying this virtual experience because otherwise, what are you going to do? Take a picture of a bunch of people sitting in front of their computer. You can’t explain what’s happening there. At least with the Zoom screenshot, you can understand what’s happening.
I photographed the two partners behind the scenes of conducting the meeting, and the reason is because they have a context in terms of how they want to leverage it with the copy, to be able to visually punctuate that particular sentiment of the copy that’s on one of their pages. While it was an internal shoot of the staff, the truth is this is how they conduct most of their calls these days with clients.
There was a plan, and it was like, “Here’s the page, and here’s the copy that we are trying to support. Now we need a visual for that.” Instead of, like I don’t know. Take some pictures. We have some nice windows over here.” There was no plan or strategy.
After the virtual stuff, we ended up then doing different scenarios, like the drafting scenario that I mentioned before. This drafting scenario was three people. They had all their stuff, they were working, and the way that the person conducting the drafting session was going, as it was 3 people, 3 at the edge of the table. Start with one person. They do their part, and then he turns and goes to the other person, and they do their part. I’m capturing everything that’s happening in real-time. Why shots? Medium shots? Close-ups of each person. Hands, details of writing, typing, and all of these different things. Why? It creates an opportunity for a diverse collection of images that ultimately can be leveraged in a way to create compelling visual storytelling, and there is not one inch of anything that feels stocky or anything like that.
Profile Photos
It sounds like those images I’m imagining being used when you are describing the firm and on all of the pages of the website, aside from their bio pages. How do you approach the profile photo and present each of the attorneys, or whoever you are shooting, whatever their career is? We are going to focus on attorneys. How do you approach that in a different way than those first shoots and those first photos that you were describing, where it’s more about that story of the firm? Now we are telling the story of these individuals.
In the strategy cal,l we determined whether they were going to go for the traditional headshot, the tightly cropped frame shot like the frame that we have here,e or if they wanted something wider. The partners wanted tight headshots. The second piece was, now normally I hate shooting anything that looks like it was taken in a studio.
That’s how I started as a headshot photographer and have taken thousands of those, and I’m over it but the challenge was that not everyone was there, and we needed to future-proof how these images were going to look. Therefore, I did two things. One, I shot everybody with the same framing against a plain background and I also went around and shot different what we call background plates, which are essentially the out-of-focus elements throughout the co-working space in which we shot. I gave them about a dozen options they could play with and do whatever they wanted.
The other aspect of that is that you don’t want them to stand there and look all angry and upset. That’s when the directing-the-client piece comes in. One I have known for years. His partner I had just met, but we built a bit of a rapport. Within the first ten minutes of talking to everybody, I got a sense of their personalities. I leveraged that intelligence while they were standing in front of the camera, saying some stuff to keep them engaged, and to get them to move their eyes, eyebrows, and mouth around. This created a variation of confident, approachable, likable, and trustworthy expressions that fell within the scope of their actual personalities while also tying back to the brand overall.
I love the description of making their face move because I feel like when people are uncomfortable in a photoshoot, especially if other people are standing around, it can be awkward and uncomfortable. You have to get them to break that tension. I wanted to go back, though, because you mentioned if it was up to you, you wouldn’t do that tight headshot that studio-looking whatever. Once again, for us, I always ask for both. If we are going to do this, I want to have options. I like to have on websites a few different shots of each person because, once again, it tells that story. It feels more like you are getting more personality but why do you like to have a wider shot with more of their body in it?
The truth is, I’m with you. The way you described it is exactly how I run all of my branding sessions. The thing about it is, if the client is not interested in having more variety, then we’ll focus on the stuff that you deem more important but it’s something that is addressed in the beginning because I did ask them, “Do you want variations of other portraits?” They said, “Our time would be better spent during that half-day session, capturing the behind-the-scenes, the fly-on-the-wall experience of all of the differences aside from the drafting and the virtual meeting. I also did a whiteboard session with one of the partners doing his thing, with everybody watching. Those photos carry more value to them at that moment this time in terms of how they are going to leverage them in their strategy, their marketing strategy. We roll with it.
That makes perfect sense and, once again, comes back to that initial strategy session that you are having because I was thinking of two different examples. There’s one firm that we work with, and their goal is to grow exponentially their team not to grow their clients necessarily, because the team brings a lot of clients typically. Their huge focus was on the parts that describe the firm, why you would want to work here, that behind-the-scenes description that you were talking about and so they would have wanted a photo shoot like what you were describing telling about the firm and all the cool things and whatever, all of that stuff.
As opposed to we have worked with firms where there’s a couple of named partners who are very well-known, and so, like, they may be out doing PR and showing up on the news channels or whatever, and people are searching for those guys’ names. In those cases, we are going to focus heavily on the bio pages and the profile and showing those guys and probably having them on the homepage and all that stuff. Once again, it keeps coming back to the strategy, and if you don’t have that dialed in, it’s going to be a mess.
Not only is it going to be a mess, but there is a good chance that you are going to have to pay for a triage photo session to be able to fill in the holes. The reason for that is because I have been that person to have to do that.
Book Recommendation
We have come in all the time and have to redo it. It’s like, here’s where you are wrong, but it’s true. It’s like laying the foundation for a house. If you don’t, if you have a cracked foundation or lack of foundation, if you don’t have that strategy, then you are going to have to tear down the house and build it again. It’s going to fall apart. It’s going to be a mess. It’s time for the book review, and our website has a collection of all the books that each of our guests has suggested. You can take away some thoughts, maybe go and read a great book that might be compelling along these lines. John, what’s the book that you want to recommend to the readers?
The book that I want to recommend is not about visual storytelling, but it is from a colleague and a very good friend of mine that I work with. His name is Phil Jones, and the book is called Exactly What to Say. The idea behind it is, that instead of counting your conversations, it’s about making your conversations count by being more purposeful and understanding that the person asking the questions is in control of the conversation. Curiosity is the fuel of great conversation. People do things for themselves and not for their reasons and not for yours.
The big one. The worst time to think about what you are going to say is in the moment that you are saying it. That’s why I’m glad and for that one, that corner those are the four cornerstones of what that book is about. That particular one, I’m thinking to myself now. I’m like, I am glad that we went over the book thing before we got on this because now I knew what I was going to say and I wasn’t going to go.
The worst time to think about what you will say is during the moment you are saying it. Share on X
It was good. I like it a lot. It was awesome. You should read it.
I have to say, it is a transformational book and it’s not just applied to sales and business. It is applied to all aspects of life, and it’s amazing.
I do think it ties into visual storytelling because we are still saying something, and it’s more complex because we figured it out first. You have to figure out what you are going to say like you were saying, and that goes back to that strategy. Then you have to figure out how to convey that visually. It’s more complex than your word strategy because that’s the beginning stage of that whole plan. I do think it ties in. Once again, make a plan. Let’s sit down and think about this and do it well, and when you do, the results you get are so much better. You can look at it. I love before and after this, because it’s like, “No question.” That blew it out of the water.
The more prepared you are for your session, the fewer words you are going to be going into it with, and the opportunity for you to be more present and open to the direction of the photographer goes up dramatically. That alone will help you be able to get photos that, when you and the team look at them, you say to yourself, “I recognize that person. I’m proud to have these images and I want them out there to help tell our story visually.”
Plus, there’s a level of confidence that you are going to have where you are going in feeling like, “I’ve got this it’s going to be killer.” That is going to come across in your face if the opposite is the scenario where you are like, “I wish I had put a little more thought into this.” What’s on your face when people are taking pictures of you?
It sure is and those photos end up in the garbage, but that’s okay.
Action Items
Action items. This is a new section of the show that I’m adding, where I want people, at the end of the show, after they have been reading to all of us yammer on and on, to have one or two things to walk away with and think about. “I need to do this and this as a result of reading this show.” What’s the thing or two that people should think about doing based on everything we have talked about?
When you asked me that question, I wrote down my perception and personality. The biggest thing that anyone reading this right now can do, in terms of seeing where they are at, in terms of how they are putting themselves out into the world, is to look at all of the photos that are on your website. Look at all the photos that you are using. If you have a public presence and you promote yourself on podcasts like you were talking about those two more celebrity-driven or famous lawyers you were talking about.
If you are that type of person with a public face, look at your media kit. See what your images look like. Look at your social profile, your banners, all of that stuff. Before you do that, answer the questions. What are the five words about how you want to be perceived by those you serve? What five aspects of your personality do you want to convey to them? Once you have those words, look at the images. Does it match up? If it doesn’t match up, it is either A) Look at your library. See if you have something you can put in that’s more appropriate. B) It’s time to give a little ringy-dingy to a photographer and get to work.
At the end of the day, how often do you think people should be updating their photos?
The first easy one to list would be if you are going through an overall refresh/rebrand of everything. Another one would be if you have gone through some life transition, your appearance has changed, or if there’s another one a business transition. You’ve added a different service that you need to get candid lifestyle shots of to represent it on the service pages and when you talk about it online.
The other one is a little more intangible. Meaning, that if you find yourself losing a lot of 50/50 calls from potential clients, and you start to think to yourself, “How can I stop losing these 50/50 calls?” One of the obvious things is that photos alone are not going to start getting more clients. That’s not the case, but it is one area that you would probably be wise to start looking at and think about how people are coming through the front door.? That’s what those photos represent. If they are not calibrated and aligned with the level of authority that you want to project, it is going to be seen by these people, and it is not necessarily going to lead to a good result. That’s going to happen from it.
All those are great tips, but I would also say, add at least one new set every 4 to 5 years. Even if nothing changes. You haven’t gone through a life change or whatever, but every 4 to 5 years, you don’t look the same as you did 4 or 5 years ago. The styles are different, your approach is different, and the quality of the photos just won’t be the same. It’s also going to look stale.
Let’s go by years. Let’s go with that instead of those things, which are very important. What I would say is, if you don’t post that much and you do look the same, you are fine for 4 to 5 years. If you start posting more consistently, yes, the images will get stale. One of my retainer clients, with whom I work on his storytelling, as well as photographing his branding stuff, and eventually, I’m going to shoot the new book that’s coming out and shoot him on stage. I talked with the content producer I work with to put his content together, and I said, “25 looks like we are due for a new one,” because we post a lot and, every two years for him is what makes sense. The answer is, when you look at this stuff, the first thing is you’ve got to give it the sniff test. “Am I bored with these photos?” That matters. Aside from personality and looks and that’s all the same, are you bored with them?
I also wanted to underline the part that you mentioned like, “What’s coming in the front door, and what are people saying?” When I update things and when I add new photos, the things I hear people say in that initial intake call were things like, “I saw your website, and I knew you were the right person for me.” I don’t even know what it was and they are saying I don’t know what it was, but I know what it was. It was tons and tons of hours of refining my message, getting new photos, going and changing all these things, and updating things on a regular basis and it’s not magic.
It’s not like I send out vibes into the universe. It’s work. This is marketing. It’s none of that. It is real stuff that’s getting into people’s heads, and they don’t necessarily feel it, but that’s the difference between those words and the visuals because the visuals hit you in a different part of your brain where it’s like, it’s either saying yes or no and if they are coming in and they are saying, “Yes, you are the right person,” that had something to do with it and if you are not hearing that, there’s probably a problem somewhere with your visuals.
I have run into this a lot, where people spend all this time and effort on the copy, and then when it comes to picking the photo, it’s like, “Eenie, Meenie, Meeny, Moe.” It’s like you don’t understand how much impact you are losing on a potential client that could come through the door because at the end of the day, the image, and it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s what it is with the images. It’s that subconscious feeling that they get from you, simply based on the emotion that’s conveyed in that image. It’s like, “I like this person,” or, “Get that person the hell away from me. I can never be in that room.” You can get that in seconds, and that is why images are critical.
Images can convey a subconscious feeling in seconds Share on X
I see this all the time with law firms. They will literally spend months fine-tuning the words in whatever, and exactly what you described and then the images, and they are like, “My teeth look clean in this one. Let’s go with that.” It’s like, there’s so little thought in what they are doing with those visuals, and they are like destroying all the work and it’s not that the words aren’t important, but they don’t get to the words first. That’s not what is happening first when they land on a website or social media or whatever. The words are sometimes they are never getting to it. Especially if it’s social media, they don’t even expand to open those words. It’s like, does the image land or not? To pass that and think that that’s less important than your words. It’s wrong.
We are wired as human beings to make meaning through visuals. That is how it has worked. That is why all of the work that goes into that frame of all of those pixels matters. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to beat the idea into some people’s heads, but eventually they get it but once they get it, they will never forget it.
Episode Wrap-up
That’s so true. I was going to ask for one big takeaway, but I feel like maybe you have another one but that was such a good one, like that. We are so wired to be connected to those visuals but you have a more specific takeaway to this whole episode that we have been talking about, with all the mistakes, all the bad ideas in the stock photo, all of the stuff that we have covered. For like a big takeaway for this episode.
The big ribbon bow on top of this whole thing is, be more intentional about the way you position yourself in your photos because if you don’t, you are missing out on an opportunity to be able to serve the people who need you the most because it is not their job to find you, it’s your job to be discovered by them. I just made that up. I’m glad you like it.
If you want to use that again, you can go back. John DeMato is a visual storyteller and photographer in New York. Thank you so much. That was such a great episode. I appreciate it.
I’m glad you liked that. Thanks for having me.
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About John DeMato
While I had no clue about the Expert-based community when I worked in television, I’m grateful for the opportunity to serve these folks. Not only do we create magic when they’re in front of the camera, but I also have a front-row seat to hear their in-depth insights and expertise. Lucky me 🙂
With all of the work we do in person and through screens, these experiences have provided me something I never thought was possible: A chance to monetize my art in a way that doesn’t compromise my integrity. As a result, in the game of life, I’m playing with house money 🙂
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